This is from a F/A whose...facts are incorrect about AA
acquiring TWA's assets!
**TWA was NOT liquidated as in a Chapter 7
Um...correct me if im wrong but twa was aquired by AMR out of bankrupcy liquidation. **When a company is mismanaged and fails there isnt much an employee can do but hang on for the descent into history. So although the original poster may or may not be be a American Flight Attendant, he/she didnt steal your job, your former CEO's put you there. Any good financial advisor would have told you to go back to school years ago (yes years, about the time Carl Icahn was around) and you wouldnt have been dumped on the street a la PAN AM EASTERN and a hoard of other companies that went under due to mismanagement and labor rules.
**TWA was NOT liquidated as in a Chapter 7. TWA's asset's were purchased by AMR, including all employees!
34 comments:
"APFA appears to have a rather intense dislike for FREE SPEECH. (As I sort through the "requests" from Euseless to cease this BLOG)" **********
It appears that APFA is embarrassed by the truth being told on this site and if it were in their power they would 'eliminate' this site.
It is time that APFA take responsibility and begin to ACT ACCORDINGLY. The letters of agreement between APFA/AA have placated AA and delayed recalls. It's time APFA take a hard line against AA in getting recall extensions in place NOW!
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'How about a debate on National News?...Think they'd send Jay Narey?'
**********
LOL! Jay Narey is quite comfortable posting on 'his' msg board and spinning his narrow views, hatred of TWA, among his handful of listeners. His latest rant was to demand APFA not fight for recall extension for TWAers. Followed by his demand to deny TWA furloughees the right to vote in elections. This 'boy' has alot to learn about Unionism-he is the ultimate spinmeister and the epitamy of a self-serving ego maniac.
I thought it quite sporting of you to invite Jay Narey onto this site to share his feelings. Alas, he declined your offer. I can assume Narey is not able or willing to debate these issues head-on~
His comfort zone is behind a keyboard surrounded by a few 'yes-men/women' who agree with his every spin. He certainly doesnt possess any backbone in debating issues outside nor is he as intelligent as he claims to be. I will admit that he is quite good at spinning the truth - (see Narey's post on the last page).
In reality, he has become APFA's 'village idiot.' No longer can his posts be taken seriously due to lack of facts in his diatribes. In the big picture, the truth does come out sooner or later. True Karma.
After APFA gleefully gave away furlough pay (which the company didn't even ask for), and then furlough EVERY TWAer out of St Louis only to FORCE transfer AA new hires to replace them, how can anybody expect this pathetic excuse for a union to demand unlimited recall rights? Osama bin Laden and the Talaban have more integrity than APFA.
We were not bankrupt...end of that, please. When it comes time to furlough at AA in the future, the APFA will sign a letter of agreement to allow furlough pay once again as there are no former TWA employees to furlough. They will give something back to the company in return, like only printing HI6's from home to save the company ink!! Most of us know that AA will never hire again until July of 2008 and maybe then people will believe what several of us knew from day one of this completely avoidable nightmare. I am so sorry that people have lost their lives over this and it DID NOT have to happen. Terri
If you despise AA so much, then why do you want to preserve recall rights?
Yes, we DO despise the way AA has treated us, but we don't despise the job. Before you say "then why not go work for another airline" let me just say this. The majority of us were a very senior group. Our retirement is on the line. Many of us HAVE reached out and been welcomed by other carriers, but the fact of the matter is at this point, the only pension we could draw from is the one we sorked so hard for. Many of us would return to AA just long enough to sign those papers. I'm sure I too would meet many new AA friends, because I know that the hateful ones are a small (and junior) group. True professionals would embrace each other, as we have all seen our share of sadness with the airlines. TWA 847 (many of you hateful ones weren't even born for that one!) TWA 800, and how could we not mention AA and the flights on Sept 11th. How we felt your pain, but at the same time, we knew more was coming for us. We have been kicked to the curb like unwanted trash by a spineless union, APFA. And another thing, APFU would save SO MUCH money if they would tone down their glossy publication SkyWord. If they'd focus more on their members more, and less on their puffed up egos, maybe we could get somewhere. I'm sure if I looked in the dictionary for "Union", APFU would be nowhere in the definition.
All you AA'ers who sympathize with us (I know you're out there) PLEASE use your freedom of speech and post here. Fellow members are soon to fall off the recall list, and they need our help. We must have extended recall rights for EVERYONE. Not just the former TWAers, but the junior AAers as well. We ALL deserve extended recall. If you ever wanted to get on the SOAPBOX, then NOW is the time!!!!! Write letters to your congressmen and women, senators, the President for God's sake. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Don't let us lose forever the jobs we miss so much. APFA still has a chance to save face. GIVE US EXTENDED RECALL RIGHTS!!!!!! AAAAARRRRRRRRGGGHHHH!
The reason AA bought TWA was to become the BIGGEST airline in the world. United was in talks with US Airways at the time, and they would have been the largest airline. It would have taken too long for AA to purchase planes and hire and train employees. By buying TWA, AA became the #1 airline. It happened very fast and cost very little money.
Also, most TWA flight attendants have college degrees; many have advanced degrees. We are a very educated workforce. We worked as flight attendants because we wanted to, not because we had to or because it was the only thing we could do to make a living.
May you live in peace knowing how you destroyed us without an ounce of compassion...unionism at its best....
APFA..."American's Pathetic Flight Attendant" union.
I am neither an AA employee or a TWA employee, but I am a Flight Attendant with some mileage on me (and a casualty of the original Pan Am). I read this blog with "shock and awe". I KNOW first hand what has happened to the TWA veterans because I have wonderful new (Professional & Experienced) friends who came to my airline after being "dumped" by AA. I have have heard the stories of how when the TW/AA "merger" first took place, veteran AA'ers were walking around with buttons on thier uniforms saying "Hired not Acquired".......clearly that should have been an indication of the mindset at AA and an indicator of things to come.
As someone who received 12 cents on the dollar from the Bankruptcy Court for my years of "wonderful service at Pan Am" as MY pension and goodbye, I can only FEEL the pain deeply of my friends from TWA.
While I may not be privvy to many of the details of the TW/AA deal, I DO know unions, and they are ALL in bed with airline management...BAR NONE! My TWA friends got the royal shaft by American, and clearly everyone on here are a testament to that. Those of you from AA who take issue with these people.....stop and think for a moment......20 years from now, when you've put in your time at AA, AA gets taken over by US Airways......(Don't laugh....stranger things have happened)....how would you feel? Immediate furlough, NO recall rights, no medical, no passes and $450 a month if you're lucky as a "reward" for your lifetime of service! Well I say, lighten up....WALK A MILE IN THIER SHOES!
TWA WAS NOT AN AQUISITION IT "WAS" A MERGER! AA "MERGED" finances, routes, aircraft, real estate and PEOPLE. And YOUR brothers and sisters, your "seasoned veterans" who could have done nothing but bring a fresh perspective and "raise the bar" a little amongst yourselves were herded out to pasture like cattle and set free. THIS IS YOUR HEARTLESS MANAGEMENT AND YOUR PATHETIC UNION/MOB REPRESENTATIVES WHO DID THIS. No one else.
I say EVERYONE from TWA contact Dateline NBC, Primetime, 20/20 and any other media entity that will listen. This needs to be shouted from the rooftops!
You were all treated scandalously, and I feel so deeply for all of you.
Please don't get me wrong, I am not anti-AA, (I'm Platinum Elite with them), I am anti AA Management, anti-Union assholes, anti-GREED, and anti narrow-minded individuals who DON'T want to look at both sides of the coin.
My fellow F/A brothers and sisters who got screwed by AA deserve justice. And for those of you at AA who STILL don't think so, be careful what you wish for, because what goes around DOES indeed come around.......EVENTUALLY.
Signed,
A friend from World Airways
P.S. There but for the grace of God go (YOU) or I!
Whoever wrote this is misinformed AND a total idiot. AA/APA/APFA have a better propaganda machine that Hitler did during WW2. Talk about mis-information.
Jeez.
I am so tired of the statement by APFA that they are "looking out for the majority". If that were the case there would be no 767 staffing grievance or any other grievance that effected only a handful of persons. The TWA flight attendants have experienced selective representation and discrimination.
As much as I feel for all TW folk...this issue is said and done...Judge Gershon has ruled...you lost. The IAM should be the focous of your frustrations, not APFA.
I know there are many GREAT people waiting to return to the line-I do hope,soon, I have the chance to fly with some of you.
Yea, Yea, Yea,
If you truly looked forward to flyinig with some of us, you would encourage your union to extend recall rights. Supposedly we were all furloughed because of 911. If that's the unions position, don't you at least think you could throw us that bone. No! You can't wait til we are all gone..
Your "Union" never went to the table with a facilitator provided by AA to work out a merger of seniorities with us. You said "Ya'll are going to the bottom of the list" and that was it. You are flying our routes, with our planes. My My isn't that nice for your junior people still on the line.
Shame on you if you think your "union" or your company treated anyone fairly.
I would like to remind you that after we became a part of AA, APFA put a clause in your contract that was identical to the one we had at TWA that gave us job protection in case of a merger or aquisition. AA forced our union to give up that clause and restructured our debt to get rid of Carl Ichan and the Carribou agreement. It was a condition of the deal. Congress approved the deal with the understanding that all TWA employees would have job protection.
I was based in NY when we were merged or aquired or whatever you want to call it.
Your union promised me full seniority in NY if I stayed based there. THEN they proceeded to close that base for us and sent us to St. Louis to work. And THEN layed us off after two years of a miserable commute only to then have to collect unemployment benefits from the state of MO instead of NJ. I got $250 a week instead of over $400 which is what I would have gotten from NJ.
I would say that you folks and your company are so slick you are almost slimy. None of you are what you THINK you are. Nothing professional, classy or honorable here.
Good grief can no one see this as it really was?
"AA forced our union to give up that clause and restructured our debt..."
Then go picket in front of IAM's building.
"Congress approved the deal with the understanding that all TWA employees would have job protection."
And you did get job protection. Remember that nice increase in your checking account you realized for 2 years?
"I was based in NY when we were merged or aquired or whatever you want to call it. Your union promised me full seniority in NY if I stayed based there."
Right. But it was AA who closed the NY base, not APFA.
Next tenuous, twisted argument please.
"I'm sure I too would meet many new AA friends, because I know that the hateful ones are a small (and junior) group."
WRONG!!!!
The percentage of f/as who believe the SIA was fair is in the HIGH 90s.
Some of you, if not all, argue that your seniority should have been merged because of "experience." Laughable. Come on... Opening a door or window exit; commanding an evacuation; serving a meal and a drink doesn't require a whole lot of experience. Those actions do not get better over time like evaluating complex economic issues or diagnosing medical mysteries. Stop exaggerating!!! So-called "experience" is irrelevant.
Poster above said:
'The percentage of f/as who believe the SIA was fair is in the HIGH 90s.
REALLY? Can you clarify that with a poll proving your statement? You have to admit, apathy runs rampant among the APFA members. For the majority, they work their trips and are truly not active in the interworkings of their Union. For goodness sake, many cant take time to fill out a ballot much less stay apprised on what is happening around them.
Your statement:
"Some of you, if not all, argue that your seniority should have been merged because of "experience." Laughable. Come on... Opening a door or window exit; commanding an evacuation; serving a meal and a drink doesn't require a whole lot of experience. Those actions do not get better over time like evaluating complex economic issues or diagnosing medical mysteries. Stop exaggerating!!! So-called "experience" is irrelevant."
YOur statement regarding the flight attendant responsibity is self defeating for ALL in the airline industry.
As witnessed in the 9/11 attacks, can you truly say that flight attendants were onboard to simply,(in your words) "Opening a door or window exit; commanding an evacuation; serving a meal and a drink doesn't require a whole lot of experience."
I cant even believe that you have such disregard for yourself or the Flight Attendant job to make such a statement!!
TODAY, 5 years ago, Flight Attendants, Cockpit crews and passengers lost their lives because of terrorists onboard the aircraft. Flight Attendants were not given the opportunity to evacuate, save lives, or speak afterwards.
There is no exaggeration when I express to YOU that you should respect yourself as a Flight Attendant especially in this day and age.
i think you should all be out looking for a job and quit wasting your time waiting for a crappy flight attendant job to be handed to you. quit crying you bunch of babies and go work for wal-mart.
to all former twa-aa Flight Attendants: your job...our job...SUCKS.
Do you realize how many ppl are trying to claw their way out of this airline right now because they are literally killing us?
the short layovers, the long days..no food, no rest...month after month after month. you can have it. If i have my way i'll be retiring as a "JUNIOR" f/a next year. you can have it.
After 26 years of flying ---All I wanted was my insurance and passes. BUT NO! I was too young to retire.--- I suggest you AA f/as have something else to fall back on. With your attitudes and working for AA I think you will need it.
Flyinmom said:Yes, we DO despise the way AA has treated us, but we don't despise the job. Before you say "then why not go work for another airline" let me just say this. The majority of us were a very senior group. Our retirement is on the line. Many of us HAVE reached out and been welcomed by other carriers, but the fact of the matter is at this point, the only pension we could draw from is the one we sorked so hard for. Many of us would return to AA just long enough to sign those papers.
So there you have it. Many of you are ONLY interested in Milking AAL for your retirement or Pensions, WITH NO INTEREST in continuing your jobs...
experience indeed. just out for the money.
What a self serving bunch of ethically challenged hags!
Let me remind the above poster who seems to be junior at AA.
If you remain as a f/a with AA , you will age and begin to take notice of health/medical insurance, pension, expecting SOMETHING for your time spent as an employee of AA; if AA is ever acquired by another carrier, you will finally understand.
I wish you no ill but I have to submit that you have nothing to look forward to as an American Airline F/a and APFA is not going to offer you the sun, moon and stars. For the most part, you as a f/a for AA are stuck in your current situation for 2 long years..and it probably wont get any better in the interim. No recalls, no movement....you are stuck!
Im moving on....after 35 years of Union work..Good luck in your future.
what do the TWAAers really seek?
Is it to return to work on the line at a job many of us truly love and work very hard at to deliver the best service possible with what we are given, or is it to get sick pay (not sure if that would be restored or not) and then take the retirement and run?
I am sure there are as many different reasons as there are flight attendants.
I suspect AA is afraid there will be no real commitment to the job but only a resource drain as folks return to job only to get retirement rather than to actually work.
Being a flight attendant is and can be a wonderful job even with all the crap. One never knows how far a kind word or a service given cheerfully and professionally can go to make a difference in someone s life.
We never know where our rock cast in the water can reach.
It is an addictive job.
I truly wish we could dump the nasty ones who dont give a shit and get back the ones who really understand service and who understand caring for one another.
Unfortunately, it doesnt work that way.
Wish there was a magic bullet.
Wish we could turn back the clock.
Wish our companies had really cared about us.
Wish we could stop this ugliness among us.
last comment posted by
kate wood jfk purser
To Anonymous of 5:25 pm;
I know better than to expect anything from AAL. AMR is a MANAGEMENT oriented corporation (AMR=American Management Resources). I have plans to leave in the near future. My point was, and was backed up by Kate Wood :
one of your own, flyinmom, posted " the only pension we could draw from is the one we worked so hard for. Many of us would return to AA just long enough to sign those papers. "
Do you want your recall rights: to work, ,or just to get your retirement benefits and leave?
If it's the latter, you have legal rights to retirement benefits you got from TWA and from your short time at AA. even furloughed.
If it's to work, then it's unlikely, no matter what lies Tommie Hutto-Blake and Patt-the corporate "unionist"-Gibbs tell you. AA refuses to hire/ recall
no matter what, and if Tommie tries to sell out the AA memebership, the membership will hang her out to dry!
"I know better than to expect anything from AAL. AMR is a MANAGEMENT oriented corporation (AMR=American Management Resources). I have plans to leave in the near future"
Good for you! I hope you are under the age of 40 with an impressive resume in your job search. Good luck!
Kate Wood is intelligent and well rounded person who certainly has balance in her life and considers all, fairly, in her opinions. It is my wish there were more Kate's out there.
You asked:Do you want your recall rights: to work, ,or just to get your retirement benefits and leave?
IN all honesty, there is a mix of those former TWAers and what they would choose. It is hard to determine how many would return at this point. It is up to the individual should recall letters be sent. Latest is that AA doesnt intent to recall until after July 2008 because "it doesnt fit into their business model." That means any recalls of TWAers will never happen -pretty cut and dry.
"If it's to work, then it's unlikely, no matter what lies Tommie Hutto-Blake and Patt-the corporate "unionist"-Gibbs tell you. AA refuses to hire/ recall
no matter what, and if Tommie tries to sell out the AA memebership, the membership will hang her out to dry! "
Say what you will, but I think the APFA membership is in shambles, JMHO. If THB is inbetween a rock and hard place with her membership-this certainly does not bode well with the future of APFA nor the members-naatives or TWA/AA (soon to dropoff the recall list first week of October).
AA is watching this closely and enjoying the division; immensely- while licking their chops in THEIR financial future-Certainly not YOURS.
In response to the blogger that thinks seniority or time on the job has no value - I assume you are no longer receiving new hire pay as there are no new hires and won't be for many years. Why don't you offer to refund your pay increases for time served? I am sure AMR could use the money and you would not have to feel guilty. You have already given the company your opinion of your worth as an employee and if they are reading this blog, as we have been told they are, I am sure they really appreciate your help when it's time to discuss the contract.
what a poor miss informed idiot.besides that a very selfish, shallow bitch.
To all former TWA f/a's -
What do you people not understand? The only ones who were under the assumption that you would get ANY seniority were YOU! Don Carty could promise you the moon.......it didn't matter! He didn't own company bidding seniority......the APFA did. NEVER was any AA f/a under the assumption that TWA would be slotted in, or given anything more than pay seniority. Unfortunately for you, Don Carty made empty promises and even WORSE, YOUR former union the IAM signed away all of your protections. They did not have to. You didn't have to sell to AMR. Case closed. Sue the IAM for misrepresentation!
About 18,000 AA f/a to be exact. No clue on how it works. But time will tell.
Dear Anonymous,
You are Texas mentality through and through! Moral Americans abound outside your self serving state.
thanks for settling the record straight. we were not bankrupt. No way no how.
To the AA person, that thinks we got what we deserved. You are not correct. A union is a group of people trying to be treated fairly and equaly. Senority is all inclusive. You are so wrong. It obviously was an injustice that will come back to bite you in the butt.The funny part of the whole mess, is we got our company senority, which means we are at the top of the payscale and can out bid you on vacations, I hope you enjoy flying christmas, we will all be off enjoying it.Now go and try to figure out how you can take that away from us. Your are so unbelievable.Selfish, selfish, selfish.
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